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Robert Wright's Nonzero
Can Dario and Sam Be Governed? (Robert Wright & Connor Leahy)
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Can Dario and Sam Be Governed? (Robert Wright & Connor Leahy)

This episode includes an Overtime segment that’s available to paid subscribers. If you’re not a paid subscriber, we of course encourage you to become one. If you are a paid subscriber, you can access the complete conversation either via the audio and video on this post or by setting up the paid-subscriber podcast feed, which includes all exclusive audio content. To set that up, simply grab the RSS feed from this page (by first clicking the “...” icon on the audio player) and paste it into your favorite podcast app. If you have trouble completing the process, check out this super-simple how-to guide.

0:00 Teaser
0:23 Connor’s role with ControlAI
1:59 The AI vibe shift in Washington
11:32 How does ControlAI want to control AI?
16:05 Dario decoded
20:57 Are AI safety evals worth much?
29:56 Why Silicon Valley libertarians can’t escape the state
33:37 On the redefinition of superintelligence and alignment
40:14 Is the China AI race a cover story?
47:58 Connor: What really drives Dario is…
51:29 Heading to Overtime

Robert Wright (Nonzero, The Evolution of God, Why Buddhism Is True), Connor Leahy (ControlAI). Recorded October 16, 2026.

Twitter: https://twitter.com/NonzeroPods

Discussed in Overtime:

How did Yudkowsky become a doomer?
Hard vs soft AI takeover turning points.
What would an AI kill switch look like?
The open source AI question(s).
Is China just aping American AI?
Can Sam Altman be trusted?

Overtime video:

This post is for paid subscribers