This episode includes an Overtime segment that’s available to paid subscribers. If you’re not a paid subscriber, we of course encourage you to become one. If you are a paid subscriber, you can access the complete conversation either via the audio and video on this post or by setting up the paid-subscriber podcast feed, which includes all exclusive audio content. To set that up, simply grab the RSS feed from this page (by first clicking the “...” icon on the audio player) and paste it into your favorite podcast app. If you have trouble completing the process, check out this super-simple how-to guide.
0:00 Teaser
1:03 A brief history of American China hawkery
16:14 The 2008 financial crisis changed things
19:56 Xi Jinping and the great man theory of history
26:07 Can we get along with autocrats?
32:40 How China hawkery became bipartisan
38:55 Total eclipse of the hawks?
48:40 Kaiser’s “Great Reckoning” thesis
Robert Wright (Nonzero, The Evolution of God, Why Buddhism Is True) and Kaiser Kuo (https://www.sinicapodcast.com/). Recorded November 19, 2025.
Twitter: https://twitter.com/NonzeroPods
Kaiser’s podcast:
Discussed in Overtime:
How power corrupts cognitive empathy.
Is Chinese espionage really so extreme?
The unenlightened eclipsing of China hawkery.
The pandemic’s unlearned lessons.
Western Orientalism strikes again.
What made Dario Amodei a China hawk?
US vs. Chinese approaches to AI.
Overtime video:
